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Do electronic limescale inhibitors work?

June 22nd, 2005, by Rich.

Do electronic limescale inhibitors work?

I’ve been intermittently toying with the idea of fitting an Anti-Limescale device to the water supply in our home.

Today, with the delivery of a new phone book, I got a flyer describing a product called ScaleWatcher which reminded me of my occasional curiosity with the subject. It’s a nice convincing-looking flyer, with a money back guarantee, so I’m tempted to give it a go.

We have a nice glass sided kettle so it’ll be really obvious if it actually works.

I may be forced to try a little experiment and take daily pictures of my kettle, so please spare me from the madness and give me some definite answers:

  • Has anyone I know actually used a household electric water softener?
  • Was the experience worthwhile?
  • Are they any better than the magnetic or salt based ones?

160 Comments

1 2 3
  • Biggles says:
    17/12/2008 at 21:17

    IF there is no doubt about the effectiveness of electronic or magnetic scale inhibitors or their function then why are so many of us doubting? Why do manufacturers need to promote these producs with guarantees?

    Well for the same reason so many have pointed out before:
    - Lack of scientific theory of operation and explanation
    - Lack of hard evidence (non-anectdotal)
    - Lack of independent tests

    We installed a Scalewatcher about five years ago in our house on the mains pipe in the kitchen. It has made no visible or tangible difference. However, short of cutting open pipes and boiler I cannot say for certain it has made NO difference at all. And even if I did, how do I know it’s any better than before?
    All I know is that the shower, taps and kettle still get lime scale as usual.

    Reply
  • David says:
    01/01/2009 at 00:06

    My electric shower used to scale up completely within a year and needed the head cleaning weekly. I was sceptical about electronic water conditioners and before buying I checked out how these things worked on the internet. Interestingly I came across a university conference site where this topic had been discussed. Apparently the results were mixed depending on where you lived. They do work for certain types of hard water but not for others depending on the mineral content. Also the changes to the water only last about a couple of days so if conditioned water is stored say in a header tank in the loft then it will revert to normal. Anyway I decided to buy at less than £40 and since then (3 years) the shower has not furred up, the head has only had to be rinsed out twice in this period but I do get a soft powder deposit in the kettle. I replaced a failed heating element last year on the washing machine which was spotless but I recently had to renew the hot water tank as this was all furred up and started to leak (30 years). I get my water from the river Wye.

    Reply
  • Mark Haddad says:
    12/01/2009 at 00:35

    To date, I have seen no real evidence or substantiation that magnetic or electromagnetic water softeners work. Those who design them never quite offer much more than a theoretical explanation of how they are supposed to work. Nonetheless, they know at least this much… there is a sucker born every minute. Offering a money back guarantee does not by any means prove that any product will perform as claimed. Further,by virtue of the fact that they were able to deposit your money for some period of time before returning it, they have still made a profit. Think of it as puting money in somebody else’s savings account with the only promise being that you will get your money back…if you ask for it, some weeks or months after you ask for it…mabey. You send account information or a check which takes them anywhere from seconds to a couple of days to receive and process. Meanwhile, you are supposed to allow 4-6 weeks for delivery (typically). By the time you get the “widget”, your money has been fattening their account for over a month. Now that you have it, they are counting on one of a few scenarios:
    1. Whether it works or not, you convince yourself that it is doing something and choose to keep it.
    2. You decide that it dosent work but is too much of a bother to return.
    3. You want you money back.

    The third scenario is the only one that reduces profit (notice the word “reduces”)but that dosent start until you have the funds back in your account…and they dont quite manage to tell you how long that is going to take.

    Up and until the time when an accredited agency such as a University releases a statement that any one of these devices definatively has a measurable, documented and worthwhile quantity of action on hard water, keep your money in your pocket.

    Beware of “Independant Laboratory” testing claims.

    This implies that accredited individuals are working as Scientists in controlled conditions but means nothing unless the data and the credentials are revealed.

    You will encounter plenty of scientific and not so scientific sounding words with no proof of concept.

    Testimonials mean practically nothing…people often fool themselves.

    I cannot state as fact that any one of these devices either works (even a little bit) or dosent work at all…but I can say without hesitation that I have not seen anything credible to say that they do.

    But, if you want to stick magnets to your pipes or hook little boxes with lights to them…go for it!

    Perhaps your invention will cause the bad minerals and the good minerals to form two separate “electro-hydro-logically disassociated suspensions” (or Conga Lines) wherein they can be rendered both non-toxic and benefecial at the same time resulting in less scale formation, shiny hair and squeaky clean teeth…not to mention their new vortex like spin that promotes good health and a sense of well being.

    Yep…way too much time on my hands!

    Reply
  • Isobel Platings says:
    15/01/2009 at 14:31

    Many thanks for setting up this discussion – a great help thanks.

    As a landlord I was considering getting a Water Imp for our flat – I’m so fed up scrubbing out limestone between lets! Now I just don’t know. Maybe I’ll provide that spray you squirt on after a shower.
    A lot of things scientifically proven don’t work though (e.g. that useless shampoo supposed to kill off headlice) because the science is only as good as the question asked. And things tend to get supported which earn the most money. It is only when something Can’t be done that you start looking at alternatives. So whilst water softeners are so expensive, and available, where’s the need to get the science sorted on electrical/magnetic water treatment?

    Judging from the discussions here, EM water treatment does seem to work best where there is no water storage tank. Is that right?

    Reply
  • Mark Haddad says:
    16/01/2009 at 05:07

    I hate myself for jumping in here again…but seeing people choosing to believe the unproven definately bothers me.
    Nonetheless, Water, the presevation of the resource, the purity and the Biologically friendly “contamination” are not things to be toying with.
    In the ideal situation, water used for direct human contact (drinking, cooking and bathing) would have all the bad components removed while retaining all the good.
    Salt softened water may make for one heck of a soapy shower but the fact remains that the body is ready to absorb water (good ,bad or ugly)…especially first thing in the morning.
    Ideally, any water intended for human contact or consumption would be a perfect balance of purity and beneficial impurities…and would contain no residual chemicals from “softening” or biological sanitation (such as chlorine).
    Absolutely pure water is potentially detrimental to your health as being the “universal solvent” (look it up!) it is ready and willing to satisfy it’s own needs while passing through your body… and that includes by absorption.
    Simply put, it could rob you of your bones, teeth and more over time.
    So where does soft water excell?
    Soft water is of the greatest use…and perhaps the only safe use…in the laundry room.
    Washing dirt out of clothes is all about giving up minerals.
    Absolutely pure water or completly soft water by virtue of it’s lack of mineral content is potentially dangerous.
    Ideally,consumable water…including bathing water would be organism free and filtered while cleaning water would be as pure (mineral free) as possible or perhaps softened…which is in reality, not that “biologically” clean due to the chemicals and unnatural electrochemical changes it may deliver.
    Back to these (as best as I can tell theoretical) magnetic / electromagnetic water softening or de-scaling devices:
    I have not only not encountered enough information to say that they have at best more than a possible (minor) positive effect but in addition, I have seen zip to indicate that consuming their output has been deemed safe by any accredited agency.
    This much I can tell you:
    Humans have always consumed water.
    Natural Water has always contained minerals.
    Some water tastes better, some tastes worse, Some is healthy and some is poison.
    Some minerals taste good, some taste bad.
    Some good minerals/metals taste bad.
    Some bad Minerals/metals taste good.
    If the city you live in is delivering drinking quality water, it is probably pretty safe and free of unsafe levels of toxic substances including minerals…although it may need some filtering to remove anti-bacterial agents or improve the flavor.
    Insofar as your tea pot goes, it is going to build scale that you can either tolerate or dissolve with vinegar and elbow grease.
    As for the pipes, if they have been doing what pipes do for decades (carrying water) and the flow is low…you might need new pipes!

    Reply
  • phil (spain) says:
    20/01/2009 at 09:37

    Does anyone have any knowledge of the water in Spain. I have a house there and the scale problem is VERY bad indeed.
    Comments and input would be appreciated…

    Phil

    Reply
  • Louise Hutchinson says:
    21/01/2009 at 18:00

    Hi Phil

    We have recently bought a house in Spain and even using bottled water to make tea, you cannot drink to the bottom of the cup owing to the “lumps” of limescale at the bottom – it’s horrible. Our local plumber told us that most of the houses in the village are fitted with a water softener where the mains water comes into the house, which alleviates the problem – he then mentioned that it costs well over £1,000, at which point I thought I might get used to the idea of tea that’s gritty at the bottom! The salt content is an issue, though, and you still can’t drink the water, so I’m at a loss. As Phil says, if anyone has any suggestions they’d be welcome.

    Thanks, Louise

    Reply
  • Graham Downes says:
    02/02/2009 at 13:19

    I haven’t read all the articles here so apologies if i am going over things already discussed.

    I have been in the water industry for over 10 years and can say that electronic units do work, providing you buy from a reputable manufacturer. I live in Kent UK, where the water is very hard and I have 2 electronic units 1 at home and 1 in my restaurant, both work exceedingly well. But there are things you need to remember with both electronic and magnetic systems

    1) They do not soften water the reduce the scaling potential. This is critical to remember.

    2) They DO NOT therefore remove calcium from the water, so expecting your kettle to stop “furring up” is a hopeless dream as soon as you boil the water any effect the unit has will be lost and heah presto scale.

    3) These product DO work in open systems, hot water boilers and showers etc where the treated water leaves the system and goes down the drain.

    4) The effect of the units is time limited so on the rising main is in my opinion too far back.
    At home I have the unit treating the cold feed just before both the shower and hot water boilers.
    In my restaurant we treat the cold water feed to the boiler and the warm water return line.

    As I say we have had no issues what so ever and we have a scale free shower head as proof. As I said early a reputable manufacture is important and I bought the ScaleWatcher ENGIMA units as they come from the company with the longest history in this sort of thing

    Reply
  • David Jenkins says:
    14/02/2009 at 14:42

    Hi

    I don’t have one of these devices but am interested. I have found some accademic research into them and the conclusion is that the Magnetic ones can work (it goes into how) but the results are rather hit and miss and that those that do work need replacing after 2 to 3 years. The electronic ones can work but the siting of it is curcial and in support of the man from little plumber, he makes more or less the same points as this accademice article. There you go that throws the debate wide open again. Needless to say I have no connection with any firm in this industry, just interested to see if I can reduce the amount of damage scale does to our household appliances. Just cost me £75 to have my iron repaired (professional polti ironing station). Need a new shower and worried about scale in the steam cleaner).

    Here is the link read and make your own mind up

    http://www.lifescience.co.uk/PDFs/No%20Salt%20Softner,%20Fact,%20Fiction%20or%20Fantasy.pdf

    Reply
  • James Robinson says:
    16/02/2009 at 21:38

    Folks wise up. None , zero, zip, nadda of these devises either magnetic or low voltage wraps work period. But hey it’s your money waste it anyway you want. There is no evidence, none that they work. Chemical analysis is not subjective. If the hardness is there after the device it still there. Aliens didn’t take it, it’s still there. There are only three ways to get rid of hardness. Sodium, Potassium or filtration (super expensive). Blog all day long, makes no difference, there is no data only print, they don’t work. SCAMS

    Reply
  • Graham Wharton says:
    20/02/2009 at 18:07

    Hi everyone, I just thought that it may be of quite some importance to you all that where you place one of these water softeners I quite important. I would not recommend that you fit it to your any kind of softener to the Fresh Water inlet pipe that supplies the whole house because you will have to drink this water. It has been proved beyond reasonable doubt that hard water areas provide some sort of protection for the cardiovascular system. You can even overlay areas of soft water with areas of high rates of heart attacks and the two match up quite well. Its almost as if those thousands of microscopic particles of calcium travel around your arteries and clean as they go! who knows.

    These softeners should therefore be fitted to your heating and hot water supply pipe as opposed to the water mains pipe.

    Reply
  • Rakesh says:
    25/02/2009 at 21:44

    look over all comments came across this one with backing that as a designer might have to buy and test out…..

    this conpany is backed by RIBA so ??? does is work???

    electronicdescaler

    Reply
  • oemdanny says:
    26/02/2009 at 13:42

    hi everyone. here is the truth!!!!! i’ve been in my bungalow for 14years and when i moved in i had to de-limescale my shower head every 2-3 weeks. i didn’t believe the magnet theory….what’s ferrous in water??? anyway i happened to have this big 6″ by 4″ by 2″ earth magnet and i placed it next to the mains incoming pipe. guess what??? it WORKS!! i’ve cleaned the shower head maybe twice since 14years ago!!! earth magnets are extremely strong so maybe that’s the solution…..very strong magnets.

    Reply
  • Mark Haddad says:
    01/03/2009 at 05:45

    I appreciate the fact that it appears that this discussion appears to be trending towards less acceptance of claims without substantiation…while still keeping an open mind. Of all the comments, I am perhaps most impressed with Mr. Wharton’s. Although Mr. Wharton did not identify his information source, it appears reasonably evident that he has studied research that was carried out by certainly more than just a few interesed parties. This falls right in line with the fact that the best tasting things are often…not the best or better things to ingest. Take Vitamins for example…proven beyond a shadow of doubt that they benefit the body…and they taste terrible! I have also noticed that there is still no credible data or documentation being presented to support the claims being made for these manufacturers’ products…if it did exist, they would be exploiting it for profit. There would be standards to cite, charts and graphs to look at and performance criteria to meet or exceed. So, where is it?
    Conversely, if you have indeed found something that apppears to work and you are comfortable with consuming its output…drink up!

    Reply
  • Barry Foster says:
    06/03/2009 at 16:57

    I note that there are STILL people saying that they think magnetic or electronic limescale inhibitors work. They do not! Please, trust me as someone who works with limescale every working day of my life – that’s all I do.

    Please understand this: If they worked then the manufacturer would give a life-long guarantee of that – your money back if it didn’t work. Do manufacturers of magnetic or electronic limescale inhibitors give such a guarantee? NO!

    One of the best-selling ones comes only with a 90-day guarantee!
    Believe what you like – but ask for a life-long guarantee. If they say no (which they will) then don’t buy it. It’s then that you’ll buy ours!

    Reply
  • Tag Smith says:
    14/03/2009 at 12:51

    Did any of you commentators see the documentary on TV last week about the fabulous water fountains in Las Vegas. Each one of the hundreds of water jets has a very large magnetic coil around the jet nozzle. The reason? To line up the water and other molecules in it to make the water exit the jet as a smooth mass of water’. The result was the water stream looked as though it was made of glass. The other reason was – wait for it – to prevent scale build up. Maybe the Las Vegas guys know a bit thing or two about water flow.

    Reply
  • Mark Haddad says:
    20/03/2009 at 13:42

    Re: The fountains at Las Vegas…
    Water is indeed diamagnetic (look it up).
    The magnets could well pack the stream into a denser and perhaps smoother flow.
    In theory, given enough magnetic flux, the water would not touch the nozzle at all as it was pumped through…and that would indeed keep it from depositing scale in the nozzle…but that is also where the effect would begin and end.
    The water once released into the air is…just water and still contains what it did before.
    The same water would without doubt leave scale behind wherever it landed and evaporated after exiting the magnetic nozzles.
    No magic here!
    Sorry…

    Mark

    Reply
  • Tony Thomas says:
    28/03/2009 at 13:35

    Nearly ten years ago I fitted two Water Kings, one at the mains water input to our house, the other at the input to our hot water tank. After two or three years there was no sign of any improvement and I (1)reinstalled them to make sure they were properly installed. Several months late with no improvement Icontacted Lifesciences Ltd the manufacturer.

    AS a result of that conversation I deinstalled the units ans sent them back to the factory for check and test. One possibility put forward was that the software in the microprocessor was an old version.

    The units were returned a couple of weeks later, they were said to be functioning correctly and to have already the latest software. They were reinstalled again, and have made not the slightests bitm of difference.

    A susequent call to the manufacturer led me to ask why these units might not be working as I had hoped. I was told that the water in different areas contains (not suprisingly) different dissolved salts, and that Lifesciences were beginning to suspect that the units will not work if the concentration of Iron is too low. It was suggested that I contact my water company to get an analysis of the local water. I did and passed on a copy to Lifesciences. I never got a reply and have concluded that the units are a waste of time.

    Of course some people claim they work. However one doesn’t know whether they are independent of those who make and sell these things. In addition there seems to be little or no published scientific literature on the mecahnism that is claimed to be at the heart of the functioning of these units.

    In conclusion if they work for you – well you must be a happy person. For anyone else my advice would be a bit like Warren Buffet’s advice to investors, “If I don’t understand it I don’t buy it!”.

    Reply
  • Len Brown says:
    31/03/2009 at 11:55

    My best solution is to avoid the little gismo’s, use a water softener, basic ones are quite reasonably priced and you have immediately eliminated the problem for good. My set up is to have the rising main connected to the unit so all water is softened, obviously leave the garden tap off and I have a non softened feed to a drinking water filter next to the sink.
    I got into water softeners due to moving to a very hard water area and now I install them in all my friends houses, they are also extremely useful if you have a dry skin condition in the family.
    I have first hand knowledge of spains water and would recommend the same as above but get a small reverse osmosis filter unit to filter the drinking water, it will remove everything but only on drinking quantities unless you get a really big one. The units are designed to fit under most sink units. The technology is used by water companies to purify supplies.
    Back to my lovely softwater, oh I do have my tea with softened water as well,…….

    Reply
    • Natasha Edwards says:
      28/04/2009 at 10:45

      Hi Len

      I found your comments very interesting. I am looking to install a water softener in our pub. I have not found any decent ones for a’reasonalbe price’. Have you any suggestions and would a reconditioned one be as effective. Are they easy to install?

      Regards
      Natasha

      Reply
  • Malcolm Fisher says:
    08/04/2009 at 00:29

    There is no doubt in my mind that the water at my previous address in the Milton Keynes area was massively improved by the Water Improvements Ltd Elf that I installed.

    It significantly reduced scum formation in the bath and the amount of soap/detergent that we needed to use to produce a lather. Even the kettle did not build up deposits as quickly, although thr Brita Filter would have contributed to this.

    There was also no apparrent deterioration in performance after almost 10 years of operation

    Don’t ask me how it works as that is a complete mystery to me.

    Reply
  • Graham Tricker says:
    10/04/2009 at 15:33

    I see most of the comments above suggest its all a load of nonsence. However I fitted an electronic version to our mains supply over 10 years ago and I can tell you it definitely works. I guess it depends on the area you live in, but here, just outside London where there is a lot of calcium in the water it definitely works. Mine is an early one that has 2 LEDs that flash alternatively showing the magnetic field is working.

    Sometimes (maybe once a year) it locks up and has to be reset (by powering down and repowering up again). When this happens I can tell within a couple of days its not working as a calcium “scum” appears around the sink and on various appliances. If I now look at the unit I can see the 2 LEDS are out and the unit needs resetting. Proof enough for me that it works and the water is definitely better for washing your hands and showering. Although not as good as a dedicated plumbed in water softner these electronic ones are cheap to buy and to run and they DO work in certain areas.

    Reply
  • Mark Haddad says:
    13/04/2009 at 05:53

    I’m amused by the claim that some of these devices seem to work in some areas but not in others…however, there could be some truth to it depending on what the water in the area contains. In essence, all of these conditioners appear to rely on magnetic fields whether that means static fields such as from permanent magnets or moving fields such as from coils being driven by alternating current or even pulsed direct current. At the bottom of all this, is the question as to what the water in the area contains. If the problem in the area is Iron in the water for example, the claim that magnetism could affect it is a bit more believable than it would be for non magnetic elements. The magnetic properties of any and all elements can be divided into three major classes. There is magnetic (or ferro-magnetic) such as iron, paramagnetic (weakly attracted to magnetism) and diamagnetic (repelled by magnetism). Water itself is diamagnetic. The minerals contained in water could be most affected if they are of a magnetic type. About the best I could see an applied magnetic field doing would be to possibly “clump” some substances so that they either get trapped in a post filter easier or pass on through the pipe systems in larger pieces. Still, there does not seem to be data to support any of this nor does anybody claiming success with one of these units identify just what mineral (or metal) set was the problem in their particular area. The words “Scum” and “Fur” and “Scale”,etc. are not exactly the stuff of scientific findings.
    That said, do any of you who are claiming success with these products know just what it is that you believe was improved? Has a one of you had a before and after sample tested?
    I would really like to see a chart from an accredited agency…preferably something along the lines of a university with zero affiliation to the manufacturers of these devices.
    Just a simple list of the stuff commonly found in drinking quality water and a description of how the stuff and the water are affected by any and or all of these methods would carry a lot of weight.
    PLEASE, point us to it!

    Ps: I am neither a scientist or a teacher…so I hope I have described magnetism properly. There are good articles on the net if you are interested including a frog floating in an intense magnetic field.

    Reply
  • Wild Weasel says:
    27/04/2009 at 12:51

    I saw these things on a tv show over the weekend and immediately thought of all the identical “gas saver” device scams that continually make the marketing rounds. Exact same device but applied to a car’s gas lines instead of your home’s piping. Same pseudo-science explanation, which has been thoroughly debunked. Same scam?

    Reply
  • Mark Haddad says:
    02/05/2009 at 20:39

    The only words that come to mind with all of this is Shame and Ashamed.
    It is a shame that no simple solution for hard water or low gas mileage appears to exist.
    It is a shame that nobody can present any hard facts to support claims that it can be done.
    It is a shame that people will waste their hard earned money on claims that these tinkerers should be ashamed of.
    Anybody who manufactures or distributes these devices based solely on vauge non-factual claims of performance and vauge non factual theories of operation should be ashamed.
    Between magnets and the multi-application “vortex” catchword, there exists an entire industry based on wishful thinking.
    I try to keep an open mind but at the same time, I always try to gauge how much of what I think I am seeing is due to the placebo effect.
    On the other hand, I also like getting something for nothing.
    That being said, if I was to cobble together some electronic components, put them into a nice enclosure,give them a “rocket science” sounding name and describe the theory of operation…with the caveat “results may vary”…would you be interested?
    Perhaps I could advertise it in the wee hours of the night on cable TV.
    What sounds fair…$19.95 or three easy payments of $39.99…plus $9.95 shipping and handling?
    What exactly is the deal maker?
    The fancy name or the theory of operation or the price?
    How about “Electrohydrodynamic Aquatic Demineralizer”…$29.95…but wait…if you act now, I’ll send you two…one to put on the water main and one to keep the papers from blowing off your desk when the fan is on.
    See the shame, feel the shame…be ashamed!
    Up and until somebody puts forth some real verified factual data, keep your money in your pocket…or wrap the money around your pipes…enriched water is good for you…Hydromonitarilly speaking of course.

    Reply
  • Sheri says:
    04/05/2009 at 21:33

    I do not understand when people knock the HydroFlow products, they work – the company would not be still in operation if they were a scam. I have a HS38 installed, I have other “wrap” devices and they did not work, only treated water in the magnet area… the only similarity I see to all the negatives with this technology is that the people knocking the device sell salt based softeners or other related products. I know that I was guaranteed that this is the only product of its kind. I purchased from a distibutor in Canada.

    Reply
  • Hesam says:
    04/05/2009 at 21:39

    I remember one manufacturer of these devices, has a CE standard for its device. I should say one of the most important part of this CE standard is that the standard team will check the company’s claim about their product, on the other word they tested this device, this is a proof of its operation. I think, it was the only company with this Standard.
    Therefore don’t buy any product blindly and concentrate on company’s history and standards.

    Reply
  • Mark Haddad says:
    08/05/2009 at 03:18

    Re: The CE mark

    If I am not mistaken, the CE mark does not mean that a product does what is claimed…it basically means that it has met certain Health and Safety Standards…in the european market.
    Again, if I am not mistaken, this would bear a similarity to the UL stamp in America.
    Here is an an example of a way around UL (as I understand it):
    If a manufacturer builds a power supply into a piece of equipment, that device must now go through UL. However, if the manufacturer uses an external UL approved power supply…such as a “wall wart”, then the device is not directly connected to the electrical mains and does not (or may not) have to go through UL.
    In other words, the “off the shelf” plug in power supply which may bear the UL or CE stamp has nothing to do with the product it happens to be powering. This raises the question: Does the actual Unit itself bear the stamp or is it just on the part that plugs in?
    Again, I emphasize that the stamp is more practically a way of stating that the piece to which it is attached or stamped on wont kill you or burn your house down…as I understand it. That in itself would say nothing about the box that it is plugged into.
    If I am wrong on this, feel free to correct me.

    Reply
  • How Dangerous is Tap Water for Showering | Chemical Agents says:
    23/05/2009 at 05:52

    [...] Do electronic limescale inhibitors work? – boakes.org [...]

    Reply
  • Mike says:
    23/05/2009 at 11:05

    I read this site a few months ago when trying to decide whether to purchase a water conditioner or not. I found it all very confusing with some saying they worked and some saying ‘impossible’!
    I purchased a ‘Waltham Scale Manager 2′ and have had it installed for two months with the following result:
    1. No longer any scale in the shower head.
    2. Only a small amount in the kettle after two months, I used to have to clean it out every week!
    3. Bath/sinks/toilets, all appear much cleaner with no evidence of limescale.
    The reason I am writing this is that I found it very frustrating when researching earlier this year. I can assure people out there that the system I purchased DEFINITELY WORKS and I can also assure you that I was as sceptical as anyone over their usefulness, but no longer. My theory on those with bad experiences is that they did not install them correctly, or they purchased a cheap model.
    I hope this helps.
    Regards
    Mike

    Reply
  • alex says:
    26/05/2009 at 14:35

    how do we know who here is sales pitching and who is not? anyone can invent a “it definitely works/not” no?

    Yours
    Still completely confused.

    Reply
  • Joe says:
    27/05/2009 at 18:36

    Having seen detailed technical laboratory results of ScaleWatcher and having read everyone’s comments here, I can simply conclude that a water softener is the way to go. I am having re-plumbing done at home, so this would be the best time to have one installed. I have a couple of questions:

    1. Can anyone recommend a robust, reliable and quality water softener that is well known to work well as well as last a long time?

    2. Are there restrictions on which softener can be used with which boiler? A plumber mentioned to me that a water softener may not necessarily work with a modern combi-boiler. Is this true?

    3. I understand the importance of using unsoftened water as drinking water. Is it therefore sufficient to have the softener fitted to the heating and hot water supply only (as stated by Graham Whartom above)? what about additional soft water to cold taps in bathrooms (e.g. bathroom sink, toilet, cold shower water). So basically, soft water everywhere, except kitchen sink (cold tap) for drinking, and garden tap.

    I don’t have any issues with de-scaling a kettle few times a year.

    Any advice will be much appreciated.

    Reply
  • Steve says:
    30/05/2009 at 12:51

    I purchased a Water King WK1 and installed it on the incoming main just before it splits between boiler and cold supply. There is no header tank. I have noticed no effect from it at all. I contacted Water King who said that it required some iron in the water to work (see previous post from Tony Thomas). I got a water analyis from my water company (Three Valleys Water – in the Chilterns in Buckinghamshire) which said that the iron level was below their measurable limit. Can some of the people who say their electronic water conditioner does work please contact their water companies for a water analysis and post the results?

    Thanks.

    Reply
  • Mark Haddad says:
    31/05/2009 at 05:55

    And so it goes…
    A bunch of people that say these devices dont work, a few who claim they kinda work…maybe.
    Oh yeah…don’t forget the occasional overenthusiastic grandstander that proudly reports succes with “brand x”.
    Zero real documentation…and yet there are obviously those who want to believe.
    There is nothing I or anybody can say that will change the mind of somebody who wants to believe in these devices.
    Unfortunately, despite the government’s tendency to stick their fingers into everything; It seems to take them forever to actually take a stand on mystery devices like these. On the other hand, the fact that there does not appear to be much of any published government opinion could well be a statement in itself.
    Nonetheless, it seems to me that if only an occasional person is “completely convinced” that these devices work, chances are good that they dont.
    I find the manufacturer’s “Iron excuse” particularily amusing.
    If you think about it, they are essentially saying that your water is too clean for their device to work properly…hmmm.
    If you want to convince me either way, direct me to the unbiased, qualified laboratory results.
    Is that too much to ask?

    Reply
  • Joe says:
    31/05/2009 at 20:26

    By the time people here make a decision and move forward with whether or not to go for an electronic or magnetic device, I will have all my house plumbing done and dusted with a [proprietary] water softener (salt operated). This will eliminate the non-sense yoyo arguments of whether electronic/magnetic devices do really work or not and if they do, are they sufficiently effective enough? I know my solution WILL work and is proven to work.

    Good luck to all who opt for the electronic/magnetic solution…

    Reply
  • Sandra says:
    01/06/2009 at 20:29

    Anybody come across a company called Aquatiere? They’re selling inline filters with some sort of porous ceramics to filter the water.

    Reply
  • Nick says:
    08/06/2009 at 11:47

    WQA Magnetics Task Force Report: In March of 2001, the Water Quality Association (http://www.wqa.org) published a two-year study called the “WQA Magnetics Task Force Report.” The report detailed 34 of 106 scientific test results on magnetic water treatment that met the task force’s scientific criteria. They concluded that many of these magnetic processes were valid and worked to soften water, but in order to spread the technology more research is required and the industry should be held to a certification standard concerning water treatment.

    hope this helps

    Reply
  • Mark Haddad says:
    09/06/2009 at 02:57

    Took a look at the WQA report which appears to be a study of studies or more appropriately; approval or disapproval of how the studies were conducted.
    Within the studies published, there didn’t appear to be much positive data and in fact a fair bit of negative and or inconclusive.
    If there was any actual WQA support of any particular practice or method for actual water treatment, it didn’t jump out…only approval of how the tests were conducted.
    Had this been a study actually conducted by WQA as opposed to two years worth of reading of other’s works condensed to thirty some pages,it might have merited a more thorough reading.
    Nonetheless, it appears to indicate that there is little to no benefit based on the few reports I did read.
    The best testing methods in the world dont carry much weight if they are not actually conducted by an accredited, unbiased agency.
    It is good to know that somebody at least looked at how the tests were carried out…almost a decade ago.
    I agree that standards should be met…where are they and who is enforcing them…specific to magnetic/electromagnetic/radio,etc.water treatment systems?

    Disclaimer: Beyond an average everyday level of intelligence, I am not qualified to comment as an expert. These are only opinions.

    Reply
    • GREG says:
      17/06/2009 at 09:05

      Having read all the above, I decided that I would give it a try – but not break the bank!

      I purchased the Magenta kit, which delivers a “variable frequency magnetic field” and is based on a design published in EPE magazine october 1997. Cost £23

      My coffee percolator has a de-scaler alarm, and it was flashing when I installed the device.

      A day later it had stopped, and did not become alarmed again.

      UNTIL LAST WEEK!

      I then checked the device, and found it was not working as the power supply had failed.

      Magenta then supplied a new one by return, and now the light is no longer flashing on the percolator.

      Reply
  • shaun says:
    18/06/2009 at 02:19

    They do work and hydrocare works well
    after two weeks when i run the bath
    water pressure was up and a mirky water was coming out which then run clear
    but the bad news is when the water is out of the
    system it reverts back to it;s original condition
    however the scale in the kettle is now soft and can easily be wiped away

    hope this helps

    shaun

    Reply
  • shaun says:
    18/06/2009 at 02:32

    Further after reading on i found out that hydrocare in the US
    is Hydropath in the UK
    This is a standard product carried by British gas
    It is a unique patented product.
    This seperates it from the gimicks
    Also i would not reccomend a magnet as it can cause blockages
    in areas with high iron content.

    Reply
  • cathy says:
    19/06/2009 at 21:11

    I live in Guelph, ON Canada, (worst for hard water) the product is called Hydroflow here. Only product i would recommended is Hydroflow. Do the research and you will find that this technology is only recognized by Water Quality Association in Canada. The CWQA does not recommend or endorse “magnets” or “wirewrap” devices because they can not prove solid tests. The WQA in the USA will follow suit soon. The only ones trying to say this patented product doesnt work is salt-selling softener guys! LMAO. Thats right keep poluting our water with salt!!!!

    Just research and do your reading! This technology is available all over the world and everyone is using it. British Gas, PazGas, recommended by British Water and many more.

    Reply
    • admin says:
      20/06/2009 at 09:18

      Hi Cathy, if you’d care to link to the research (independent research hopefully) then I’d be delighted to do the reading. Without that, it’s just another empty claim.

      Reply
  • Doubting Reader says:
    20/06/2009 at 03:42

    Nice Try…and a fair bit of good salesmanship!
    Unfortunately, nothing to substantiate the claims.
    Good job though…reveal an overcomeable vunerability and alacazam!…it is working again.
    Patents? Patents are based on theories…not proof of concept.
    A gizmo is a gizmo and a gimmik is a gimmik.
    Quit with the smoke and mirrors and reveal the data.

    Reply
    • jim says:
      24/06/2009 at 15:53

      patents are based on theories? where did you get your diploma? onlinediplomas.org??? HAHAHA!

      My patent is to build a flying car that also bakes cookies and throws frisbees…. there i have a patent!….. thats my theory and im sticking to it!

      “Doubting Reader” you made me have a great laugh today! thank you soooo much…. Also please Read below to educate yourself:

      What Is a Patent?
      A patent for an invention is the grant of a property right to the inventor, issued by the Patent and Trademark Office. The term of a new patent is 20 years from the date on which the application for the patent was filed in the United States or, in special cases, from the date an earlier related application was filed, subject to the payment of maintenance fees. US patent grants are effective only within the US, US territories, and US possessions.

      The right conferred by the patent grant is, in the language of the statute and of the grant itself, “the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling” the invention in the United States( or elsewhere) or “importing” the invention into the United States (or elsewhere). What is granted is not the right to make, use, offer for sale, sell or import, but the right to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, selling or importing the invention.

      Reply
  • Doubting reader says:
    21/06/2009 at 22:20

    Ok, here is the real challenge and the only challenge…
    Substantiate your claims!
    If you really have something to present that can be verified, put it on the table and include your sources.
    I dont mean claims that you have read something, I mean reveal the facts.
    Dont try to send people looking for data and backing that may or may not exist.
    Information is being sought here that is relative to improving water quality within a household and/or business.
    If you are going to cite endorsements, I suggest you cite them factually and provide everything that you would expect from somebody else that would lead to a clear understanding of what is actually available verses what is or appears to be nothing more that an attempt to keep “snake-oil” alive and well.
    I might also caution you that citing endorsements that dont actually exist could be considered an offense.
    Despite the fact that a given organization may class itself as “not for profit” does not indicate that it is not ready and willing to protect its reputation…and if it is not, then it is a waste of your time and mine.
    As for myself, I look to those who know the facts and are willing to stand behind them for answers.
    On the other hand, examining the psychology that goes into trying to convince others of product validity without substantiation has been an interesting study.
    To put it another way; Salesmen are fairly easily identified on both sides of the issue.
    As for me, here is my total involvement in the water industry: I use water.
    So, if you want to accuse me of being on one side or another to help boost your (or someone’s) sales, you are pointing the finger in the wrong direction!
    No popularity contest going on here… just the facts please.

    Reply
  • cathy says:
    24/06/2009 at 14:56

    To the guys who replied to my blog saying I am a salesman – LMAO!… I’m not a salesman.. I am just a consumer that bought a product i like, and I am telling my friends about it. You do not have to be rude and say that some products do not work just because you bought a “scam” product. The research i found is avaialble at hydroflowcanada.com – they did an independent test with 2 insta hot water tanks (like I have) – one lasted through and one shut down. What more “scientific” proof do you need? It clearly shows that the product works and does what they say. I also got a guarantee with it (what scam company would offer that?). I have an instahot tank and so far it has been wonderful (even though the instahot manufacturer did not warranty my tank due to my location, ie: hard water zone). So before you post nonsense on these blogs saying products do not work – why not pick up a book? or google the info? You life will be much more fullfilling with knowledge! I think that you guys are just jealous and probably sell salt softeners! BTW why not google the harmful affects of salt softeners?

    Reply
    • Sarah Richardson says:
      24/06/2009 at 16:29

      Cathy you are correct. I am on a low sodium diet (strict orders by my doctor). I have done some “surfing” and found some intersting info and the fact of the matter is that sodium is no good for you or the environment. Keep on sticking it to the man! Dont let others push you around to think that you are wrong.

      Reply
      • admin says:
        24/06/2009 at 17:03

        This may be related to everyone being a Bell Canada user and coming through a proxy, but since the authors have only provided a single name, and no email address for corroboration I should note that ‘donald’, ‘jim’, ‘cathy’ and Sarah all arrive at this site using the same IP address (70.49.144.177).

        Personally, I’m not interested in salt based systems, I do still want to know if there is any peer-reviewed scientific evidence that either supports or undermines the hypothesis that passing water through an electromagnetic field can reduce the incidence of limescale.

        Reply
      • Sarah Richardson says:
        24/06/2009 at 19:33

        Cathy Its me again … found some useful info for you…

        http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/library/H20QL2/MF1094.PDF

        Done by a Kansas State University …

        Reply
  • donald says:
    24/06/2009 at 16:25

    Hello y’all! … just here browsing all info, and it seems that some guys are getting defensive about their products. Why all the uproar? I have an RO system so i dont really care about softeners but consumers should be educated about their purchases – so why are some guys (Mark Haddard) making claims that products “do not work!”. I thought that a code of ethics should be followed especially if you are part of an association – bad talking products is not allowed. besides if you search for all the bad reasons why you shouldnt buy a salt or potassium chloride softener you will see that health is the main reason you should not own one. Come on guys if we are trying to better ourselves and the planet should we not be ALL on the same page?

    Reply
  • Sarah says:
    25/06/2009 at 00:14

    Hi Admin, just to clarify…I think now this blog site is a complete scam. I do not know what you are talking about same address? but I have included my email for you to see that I’m a real person not computer. please do not spam me – this is why I didnt include it to begin with. How many people actually entered their emails? As far as the people mentioned – I do not know them – all I wanted to look for was salt/sodium and health, as I have had health problems with this – you are obviously on the site to promote your own agendas…. not let people chat, and gather info. I hope you have a very great day.

    Reply
  • Mark Haddad says:
    25/06/2009 at 01:42

    Admin,
    I had suspected for a bit that three of the four aforementioned people (coming in on the same IP address) were the same person but didnt want to make any accusations. The writing style was the key for me. Insofar as claiming that I have said a particular product does not work, I have carefully avoided doing so…I simply would like to see some qualified proof.
    I think you might even identify a 5th personality (using the same IP) if not more before before you are done.
    Nonetheless, I have not identified a single manufacturer as a scam artist…however, I have inferred here and there that there may indeed be some out there.
    This has obviously hit a nerve dead on with Mr.70.49.144.177…and caused a multi-personality split.
    The good news is that he (or she…though I doubt it) now has people to talk to.
    I have enjoyed your site more than I hate to admit…probably because I enjoy examining human behavior and interaction with a passion that far exceeds my interest in water treatment systems.
    This is not to say that I am not interested or concerned with the technologies and if it is of any interest to anybody, the first magnets went on my water pipes as an experiment in excess of 20 years ago.
    I will not dismiss any technology’s possible validity but at the same time,I am not about to believe in something that I can’t prove or something that can’t be substantiated through the proper protocol.
    I didn’t ask much but all I see is side stepping and an occasional application of the fight or flee mechanism.
    I would appreciate the positive and negative comments from unbiased individuals concerning these systems more if it was (even remotely) possible to sort them out from the other INTERESTED PARTIES.
    To those who have honestly contributed to this site, God bless you…and to the others, God bless you even more!
    Its been fun,

    Thank you

    Reply
  • Mark Haddad says:
    25/06/2009 at 03:46

    Admin,
    Please feel free to remove any and all of my posts.
    I believe your attempts to actually gain knowledge are doomed due to a number of factors which I believe are readily identified.
    I appreciate your efforts but having gained no quantifyable evidence to the positive or to the negative…especially to the positive, I believe that I have become involved in an entertaining but useless game of “kicking it about”.
    While it is very tempting to refer to some or possibly even just a few…or possibly even only one participant in derogatory terms, it gains nothing.
    I appreciate your efforts but I no longer see much more than a forum for one accusation after another going on here.
    If I have helped to create this situation, please accept my apologies.
    All I was hoping for was valid information and now I am doubting my ability to decipher the good from the bad.
    Thank you for the effort.

    So long and thanks for all the fish!

    Reply
  • Cathy says:
    26/06/2009 at 16:32

    Hi Admin, please feel free to email me your comments as obviously you think I am someone who I am not.

    I am not a salesman, or in sales for that matter. I did not come here to cause a panic or stink,just for some useful information.

    I work in an huge office building with many levels maybe someone in here was just as bored as I was at work and found your site too.

    I appreciate your comments and others as well, we all have the right to speak our mind, however when I am acused of being in colaboration with others to bring your site down – that is not my intention and I want no part in it.

    You may feel free to remove my comments as well as I have no interest in making this site a competition as to who has the most posts. I will not be back to comment. P.S. Thanks to Sarah for the link, I appreciate it. Everyone take care:)

    Reply
    • admin says:
      26/06/2009 at 18:38

      Hi Cathy,
      As I carefully noted previously, multiple comments coming from a single IP address could be down to a proxy server, not foul play.

      It is certainly a mathematically possible coincidence that four entirely unrelated people could comment successively on this thread, all within one hour, all from the same IP address, all holding similar viewpoints (Cathy, Jim, Donald, Sarah Richardson).

      Given the low traffic of this site and the relatively specialized nature of the thread, I think it’s highly unlikely. It is mathematically more probable (and therefore I’m inclined favour) that all four posts come from one person who was attempting to hijack the thread for the purposes of advertising a proprietary system.

      So, to clarify, I’m not “accusing you of being in collaboration with others”, I’m suggesting it’s likely that all the posts come from the same one person and that person has cast a shadow of distrust over the proprietary system advertised.

      I’ll be going back through the server logs shortly, so I well be able to tell categorically which of the two possible scenarios is correct, I hope it’s the former, but I fear it’s the latter.

      Reply
  • -TR says:
    29/06/2009 at 05:49

    I find this an amazing topic. The subject matter is so widely important and yet definitive conclusions are few and far between. After a few hours of research, I was at least able to come up with a report of some studies and conclusions. Try doing a search for a document titled “No Salt Softner [sic], Fact, Fiction or Fantasy” by Jonny Seccombe. It’s the closest thing I could find to a sensible scientific examination of the specific issues involved.

    -Take care and good luck wading in this water!

    -TR

    Reply
    • Rich says:
      29/06/2009 at 09:50

      Thanks for the pointer TR.

      The article you refer to appeared in the Oct 2006 edition of Water Conditioning & Purification magazine. It is available from lifescience.co.uk – the articles’ author is the MD of that company, and they make water softeners, so even with the best will in the world it’s not likely to be unbiased; which is a shame, but it was interesting reading nonetheless.

      The website does mention some other testing done by Prof. Dobson & Kay. The link to the “raw research data” is a bit disappointing however, leading to a two page PDF with a few graphs – i.e. it’s certainly not any kind technical report of peer reviewed paper one might expect as the direct output from a university, but it’s at least encouraging to read that some perhaps unbiased testing has been done.

      Reply
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